Wondering if this is a VICE issue, @bucko?

Posted by: @radius75

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I am still testing my BBS.
The download works correctly, both in Punter (DM) and in Xmodem-CRC (D).
But the upload doesn't work for me at all.
Is there any solution for this?

Windows 10
Vice 3.7-dev r42647
Config: ACIA RS232, $de00, NMI, Swiftlink, 127.0.0.1:25232, 38400, IP232

Image3.0, Swiftlink, 38400

tcpser from github.com/go4retro/tcpser
latest cygwin1.dll

Config: tcpser -v 25232 -s 38400 -p 6400 -i "e0&k0&c0" -l 4 -t s S -I 

In my opinion that is a Vice issue. Sometime after 3.5 r40835 changes were made to the Swiftlink and modem routines. I have asked for the writers of Vice to look at the routines to see what broke when they made the changes, but have been told it is all good on numerous occasions. Now they want me to test with the latest builds to see if everything works, to be honest I just don't have the time to do it. All of your config settings look good you can remove the -I from the tcpser startup line as DCD is fixed on the latest builds of Vice and you no longer have to Invert Carrier. You can put a checkmark on the right side of DSR in the flag settings and leave DCD and the left side of DSR off, that will set the BBS to detect DCD correctly and reset the BBS properly if a user drops carrier. As for Vice, I use in Linux and have both a  windows built 64 bit version and 32 bit version of 3.5 r40835 which I have added in a fix for DCD and the uploads and downloads work fine, if you want it to try email me at [email protected] and I can send you a link to my Google Drive and you can download it. My board and both HUBS run in Linux but I do know the Windows version I assembled works also.. Let me know.. 

@bucko 
Thank you for the hints. It's a pity that the problem is with the emulator.
I changed the settings according to your suggestions.
The error is difficult to diagnose. It seems to affect more than just uploads.
In my free time, I will write an e-mail about downloading your version of Vice.
Thanks and best regards.

When trying to download on a real C64, disconnection leaves the server in an infinite ACK or GOO sending loop

Posted by: @radius75

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When trying to download on a real C64, disconnection leaves the server in an infinite ACK or GOO sending loop

Remove the -I from the TCPSER boot line, then make sure only the right side of the lightbar DSR is checked. That will turn off inverted carrier, this is what is causing the BBS to stay awake and think there is a user online. Few notes: When I first started playing with Image 1.2 and 2.0 with Vice, (no one for many years could get it to work, the BBS would answer and immediately drop carrier, or they could get connected once then it wouldn't answer anymore, it also would not log the user off and reset the modem). What I did that night I was trying to get it to work was reverse DTR (DTR is tied to DCD on a real Null Modem cable) so in essence I reversed DCD, thus the BBS thought there was carrier all the time, EXCEPT when a user logged on, then it thought Carrier was not present (If you look at the status line of TCPSER when waiting for call it will show DCD:1 and when a user is logged on DCD:0). If a user dropped carrier (hung up on the BBS) the BBS would sit there and do nothing until the SysOp saw it and rebooted it OR logged the user off. The BBS ran perfect on real hardware though with BBS Server. Over the next couple of years, I tried everything to get a virtual null modem cable to work with BBS Server and Image. Nothing worked to reverse carrier. When we were working on the ML of Image 3.0, we enlisted the help of the original ML programmer (I can't say his name as he is under contract with a major company who does not allow outside programming), and he fixed the RS232 routines so they worked in Vice, only problem was carrier was still reversed. He saw some things in the Vice source code and made some comments to us about it. Fast forward about a year or so later, and Durandahl (he is answering your question on the Vice github) he FIXED the Swiftlink routines in Vice to have the correct DCD, everything was going well with his mods until some changes were made at some point after 3.5 r40835. That is when the file transfers of Image stopped working. Thus the reason I have stuck with 40835 with Durandahl's DCD modifcation installed on it. For me it works flawlessly for transfers, and if a user drops carrier anywhere in the BBS it reboots to waiting for call. Now there are times when it doesn't but those times are few and far between..

I know I have rambled a bit here, but I wanted to give you and anyone else who might have this issue a little background. If anyone wants a copy of the r40835 with the Durandahl DCD fix I can invite you to my Google drive to download either 32bit version of WinVice or 64bit Version (I assemble my own instead of using the pre-assembled), I can also give you the rs232 files in a tar format for Linux so you can assemble it in Linux, I use Manjaro for my BBS' because I was under the impression that it was my distro that was causing constant crashes, it turns out TCPSER was crashing because it could not handle bot attacks.

Hope that helps a little. Sorry again for being long winded..

@bucko 

Thank you for the extensive explanation. I understand that the problem is global, it is related to the imperfection of tcpser, that's why hackfixes are needed in Vice. But it will never work like in real C64 anyway.
I applied the changes to the DSR-L setting (screen attached) and removed the -I from the tcpser config as you suggested earlier.
I also tried com0com, got connected but no improvement.
I'm not sure what the order of the virtual connection using com0com should be.

I connected like this:

ViceBBS-com0com-tcpser-internet-realC64Client+Modem

maybe it should be different, like:
ViceBBS-tcpser-com0com-internet-modem-realC64Terminal

ViceTerminal-tcpser-com0com-internet-com0com-tcpser-ViceBBS
?

Thank you and best regards

BTW

I limited it to 2400 baud, then at least Xmodem-CRC works fine

I will beat this setting. But I'm not sure which side should be connected where.

Posted by: @radius75

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I will beat this setting. But I'm not sure which side should be connected where.

That is a step in the right direction!!

Posted by: @radius75

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@bucko 

Thank you for the extensive explanation. I understand that the problem is global, it is related to the imperfection of tcpser, that's why hackfixes are needed in Vice. But it will never work like in real C64 anyway.
I applied the changes to the DSR-L setting (screen attached) and removed the -I from the tcpser config as you suggested earlier.
I also tried com0com, got connected but no improvement.
I'm not sure what the order of the virtual connection using com0com should be.

I connected like this:

ViceBBS-com0com-tcpser-internet-realC64Client+Modem

maybe it should be different, like:
ViceBBS-tcpser-com0com-internet-modem-realC64Terminal

ViceTerminal-tcpser-com0com-internet-com0com-tcpser-ViceBBS
?

Thank you and best regards

 

Don't use Com0Com at all.. No need for it, my tcpser line looks like this tcpser -v25232 -s38400 -p3000 -l4

This issue with Vice is more a Vice issue and not a tcpser issue, TCPSER is used by many people on other platforms and it works fine, uploads and downloads work fine, Image yes may have some issues with transfers as do most any BBS. If you run Image on a real 64 with BBS server and a Nullmodem cable with pin 6 removed, it uploads and downloads with no issues at all. I have run it with Vice and BBS Server (v3.2 back about 3 years ago) and it ran flawlessly  also. If you want to try that out you can download a program called vspe which is a type of null modem set up, then you can use that as the go between with vice and BBS Server it does work, takes a bit of set up and testing with Image to get it to correctly detect DCD I haven't done it in a while since I use Linux as my OS of choice with my BBS'. I can spin up a Test bed to get the correct set up. The main problem is VICE, I have done everything they asked of you to do, I set up 2 instances of Striketerm, I started a upload on 1 and download on the other, it worked flawlessly then I did the opposite and it started then went all bad, I disconnected both instances. Then tried it the opposite way and it uploaded from the 2nd instance to the first with no issues, then I tried a upload from the first to the 2nd and again after 5 or 6 blocks it went all bad. I reported this (You can see the reports on the same thread you are working with the Vice team on) I didn't hear anything back. Then recently was contacted to find out if I was going to send them the required info they wanted. I already answered their questions, now they want a BBS software to test it with, I sent them 2 versions of Image BBS v1.2 one set up for user port and one set up for Swiftlink with instructions on how to login and upload and download. I was met with silence back in 2019 when I did this. My opinion is if it is not C*Base they don't care.. As you can tell I am a little upset with them. So I have taken the attitude that, my set up works. I won't do their jobs..

Most software writers will test their software on as many hardware solutions as possible, I sometimes wonder if the writers of Vice test at all... I know Vice is a volunteer thing, but they should test it when asked. Image 3.0 is available in many different places, they can download it read my quickstart guide and be up and running in 10 minutes! Why do I have to do it?

Off my soapbox sorry. Try tcpser the way I have it set up above. If you need the RS232 settings in Vice I use let me know. File transfers work on my board, as X-Tec has uploaded and downloaded many times and my Network transfers run fine.. In fact PalKat's BBS is pretty much a mirror of my old Windows set up of my BBS and his board runs fine too, just bots crash it like they do mine..

I am also going to attach my quick start manual which explains all to getting Image set up with TCPSER, VSPE with BBS Server, and any other tidbits I can offer.. Hope that will help out some...

I know this manual. I also tried VSPE a few weeks ago according to him and I couldn't get a better result than on tcpser alone. Maybe with Vice 6.7 it doesn't matter.

I connected

ViceBBS-VSPE-tcpser

and

ViceBBS-com0com/VSPE-tcpser

and many other combinations.

They didn't have the slightest effect on upload/download

I didn't notice that it affected anything.

Posted by: @radius75

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I know this manual. I also tried VSPE a few weeks ago according to him and I couldn't get a better result than on tcpser alone. Maybe with Vice 6.7 it doesn't matter.

I connected

ViceBBS-VSPE-tcpser

and

ViceBBS-com0com/VSPE-tcpser

 

and many other combinations.

 

They didn't have the slightest effect on upload/download

 

I didn't notice that it affected anything.

If you go the VSPE route, use BBS Server (I assume you are on Windows).. Transfers worked with BBS Server and BBS Server also gives you more configurability with it. I haven't used VSPE or BBS Server since I run in Manjaro. It's too much of a hassle to try to get Wine running with both of those programs. 

You know.. Something was bothering me about the upload issue, I looked at the video you did for the writers of Vice and saw you were using XModem.. Do you have the same issues with Punter? I haven't really played with XModem much and there may be an issue with the XModem protocol in Image. Can you try uploading with Punter? If it gives you bad blocks try Relaxed Punter and see.. I know X-Tec uploads and downloads from my BBS all the time, I think he is using Image Term though.. Let me know when you get the chance..

Hi.
As far as I remember, at 38400 I couldn't do U/D properly either on punter or xmodemcrc.
At 2400 U/D it runs at xmodemcrc 100%. and the punter is probably just a download only.